tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post114918018316526520..comments2023-10-30T14:34:16.722-07:00Comments on Men Need Feminism: Linky Goodness: On How to Spot the Faux Feminist ManJeff Pollethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149826858192760062006-06-08T21:20:00.000-07:002006-06-08T21:20:00.000-07:00Personally I have no problem with this blog; there...Personally I have no problem with this blog; there's plenty of room on the Internets for all.<BR/><BR/>I don't even have a problem with men per se speaking up on feminist boards. <BR/><BR/>I do have a problem when a man stakes out a position for himself as some sort of arbiter of feminism. actually I don't love it when women do it either, but there's an extra layer of "excuse me?" when the menfolk play "more feminist than thou," for me anyway.belledame222https://www.blogger.com/profile/13947289856453172848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149702380966933982006-06-07T10:46:00.000-07:002006-06-07T10:46:00.000-07:00belledame222--Good points all around. In fact, tal...belledame222--<BR/>Good points all around. <BR/><BR/>In fact, talking the feminist talk around men who don't (yet) get feminism might well be facillitated by *not* using the f-word. On the other hand, as a man who's a feminist, I always also have to make sure I'm not avoiding using that word because I'm afraid of losing priveledge or some such.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you, also, on the behind-the-scenes stuff. In fact, I tend to be a b-t-s sort of person anyway, but it's still a difficult lesson to learn. When one is passionate about something, one wants to *do something* about it--and men have traditionally been taught that behind the scenes stuff isn't as important (lame), so we may tend to want to do other jobs than that sort on the face of it.<BR/><BR/>One of the reasons for this very blog is to put out ideas that I think are worthwhile while at the same time not taking up space on the various feminist blogs to do so. Of course, merely existing and being a place for anybody to comment, even this blog takes up space in some larger sense, I suppose; in that case I'd have to argue that, for me, it's important enough to take up that little bit of space. But I'm willing to listen to arguments against, especially from other feminists.Jeff Pollethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149700472746066032006-06-07T10:14:00.000-07:002006-06-07T10:14:00.000-07:00anyway, as I'm sure you know, one of the key criti...anyway, as I'm sure you know, one of the key criticisms of "male privilege" has been that in this culture, it includes the tacit or not-so-tacit permission to take up lots of space.<BR/><BR/>so in this instance, it is possible--I make no prescriptions here--but it is just possible that quiet, behind-the-scenes work would be the most appreciated by the womenfolk, who by and large are the ones who are usually relegated to that role. <BR/><BR/>mileage may vary, of course.belledame222https://www.blogger.com/profile/13947289856453172848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149700296752297782006-06-07T10:11:00.000-07:002006-06-07T10:11:00.000-07:00free beat me to it.But also: there's a *way* in wh...free beat me to it.<BR/><BR/>But also: there's a *way* in which one can make a big deal of...<BR/><BR/>well, actually, point of fact, I'm not sure that "making a big deal" of it verbally is ever something I don't at least quirk an eyebrow at.<BR/><BR/>sort of reminds me of I don't know, Daffyd on Little Britain, The Only Gay In The Village (tm)<BR/><BR/>"...and I'm going to go where I can live my gay life, go to gay bars and eat gay crisps..."<BR/><BR/>anyway.<BR/><BR/>There are ways and ways in which to talk about one's feminism (and that goes for women and other genders as well). It is, for instance, very possible to say all manner of feminist/woman-helpful things without ever mentioning the f-word at all.<BR/><BR/>It is also possible to wield the "feminist" label as some sort of crucifix at one's enemies, an all-purpose cover for all sorts of appallingly controlling (and often downright sexist, to boot) behavior and language. anyway, I am deeply suspicious of what I've come to term "born-again" feminism, particularly in men, and most particularly when it's of the "radical" variety.<BR/><BR/>more suspicious when such men seem to be taking up lots of space and respect in "feminist" spaces. i think, okay, apparently some "radical" people never got as far as the chapter on "appropriation" and "womens' spaces," among other things.belledame222https://www.blogger.com/profile/13947289856453172848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149693940574404212006-06-07T08:25:00.000-07:002006-06-07T08:25:00.000-07:00free--I see what you're saying better now. I agree...free--<BR/>I see what you're saying better now. I agree that men calling other men on sexist stuff is difficult, problematic, and a pretty good sign of how much you're willing to back up your theory with your practice.Jeff Pollethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149438810005909942006-06-04T09:33:00.000-07:002006-06-04T09:33:00.000-07:00hello again. I more or less agree I think but need...hello again. I more or less agree I think but need to clarify a bit from my initial post. What I meant by speaking out in front of other men was not the need to make the declaration: "look at me I'm a feminist" , but rather stuff like calling other guys out on their misogynistic or sexist crap. <BR/><BR/>Example: the fakers are all pretend-supportive in front of their women friends, but then with their men-buddies they'll join in laugh at the sexist jokes, or just as bad - stay silent. <BR/><BR/>For most(?) men their biggest insecurity is rejection <B>by other men</B>. Being prepared to stand up to that, by both word and deed - and to take the consequeces, means less fake, more genuine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149378434793615392006-06-03T16:47:00.000-07:002006-06-03T16:47:00.000-07:00adrienne--Thanks for the support!adrienne--<BR/>Thanks for the support!Jeff Pollethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149378416654996372006-06-03T16:46:00.000-07:002006-06-03T16:46:00.000-07:00free--While I think I agree with you for the most ...free--<BR/>While I think I agree with you for the most part, I hope to address what I see as the not-simple problem of (pro-)feminist men interacting with non-feminist men (and non-feminist women!). I think that, sometimes, 'asserting oneself' as a feminist in a group of non-feminist-ish men could be the sort of metaphorical pissing contest that frames a lot of the interactions of men who differ in opinion. That's the sort of speaking out loudest in front of other men that I might want to avoid.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, not outing oneself in the way you note certainly seems like a good sign of insincerity.Jeff Pollethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-1149272561632589382006-06-02T11:22:00.000-07:002006-06-02T11:22:00.000-07:00Here's a way to tell: men who make a big deal of t...Here's a way to tell: men who make a big deal of their "feminist-ness" only in female company are deeply suspect. Men who are genuine will speak out about it the loudest <B>in front of other men</B>, that's the key difference betwwen fakers and genuine guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com