tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post1716237403503044696..comments2023-10-30T14:34:16.722-07:00Comments on Men Need Feminism: Living with Feminist Anger Toward MenJeff Pollethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-75700711203411052402009-04-08T11:11:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:11:00.000-07:00Well written, very good commentary.I wouldn't be o...Well written, very good commentary.<BR/>I wouldn't be one to say "shut up, bitch", mostly because I support freedom of expression absolutely, even to a further extent than most people. <BR/>However, lots of things about IBTP put me off, and she says a lot of things that I really don't feel are helpful or that she has licence to at all. <BR/>At times, Twisty makes me ashamed to associate myself with feminism at all.MERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06693220242162040421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-22534309927072351772007-07-20T04:58:00.000-07:002007-07-20T04:58:00.000-07:00Me thinks that Doug - you are onto something in wh...Me thinks that Doug - you are onto something in what you said above. Perhaps sometimes most of us feel some dissonance with what we see in a world of "manliness" and amongst women. It may relate to feminism but also just to "fairness" and other things.<BR/><BR/>As: "feminist" or "pro-feminist" men we may say: "all of us men are bad" - which isn't really helpful. Alternatively other men may say: "I'm not like those other men" - trying to emotionally distance ourselves from the real worlds of masculinity which we are a part of generally (hopefully not at the extremes of other men).<BR/><BR/>Being uncomfortable with ourselves and other men is important. Moving with that discomfort and working towards positive change, rather than using the discomfort as an excuse is also important.<BR/><BR/>We, as men, need to be engaged in the dialogue. We need to listen, hear and feel anger and pain in others. We need to work on our issues and make things our issues out of feeling the pain and hurt.<BR/><BR/>Thanks!geohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13454863293588730573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-70572367001158392612007-07-19T18:09:00.000-07:002007-07-19T18:09:00.000-07:00There's another aspect to being a male reading fem...There's another aspect to being a male reading feminist anger... there's a bizarre masochistic appeal to thinking of oneself as irredeemably flawed and wallowing in self-loathing and self-pity. It's like the Christian concept of mankind as flawed sinner who doesn't deserve the salvation that God offers. There's a scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail of monks who walk around hitting themselves in the head with wooden paddles; it's not entirely a joke, as there were religious orders that inflicted pain on themselves to punish themselves for their sins. <BR/><BR/>To paraphrase a line from Animal House: "Thank you Mistress, may I have another?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-83701890852980316642007-07-19T14:26:00.000-07:002007-07-19T14:26:00.000-07:00Thanks for the kind words, Dave. I'm glad we all h...Thanks for the kind words, Dave. I'm glad we all have this space for that, and other reasons, too.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08553129738801928284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-50809571643941806492007-07-19T14:16:00.000-07:002007-07-19T14:16:00.000-07:00i absolutely agree, that it needs to be spoken lou...i absolutely agree, that it needs to be spoken loud and often. it's an important tool for both men and women, harmony is not always the answer all of the time. it's important to personal and societal growth to feel confronted/conflicted and many times that is the only path to meaningful change.<BR/><BR/>(relating as a privileged person who stands for racial/social justice)Sassywhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14604276739069071163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-75804056650871969662007-07-19T13:28:00.000-07:002007-07-19T13:28:00.000-07:00sassywho--Thanks for sayin' so. Thing is, I under...sassywho--<BR/>Thanks for sayin' so. Thing is, I understand and empathize with the 'men hate you' articles--I think they have an important place in the larger discussion. Specifically, they name a general problem with no apologies, without sugar-coating the bitter pill. Men (and women) do have to better understand that one underlying theme of our relationships to gender is that men tend to do things that keep the status quo going, and the status quo is that women get short shrift on every front. To the extent that men continue to not recognize this, I'm not sure that hate is too strong a word (at times). When Twisty gets hate email from supposed feminist men saying the equivalent of 'shut up, bitch' (or worse!), that seems like hate to me, and I think it's important to keep calling that crap out.<BR/><BR/>Still, deep breaths are in order, and I thank you again for the kind words and the reminder to breathe.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08553129738801928284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-50226640915314656612007-07-19T11:34:00.000-07:002007-07-19T11:34:00.000-07:00Thank you, Jeff, for describing up what is perhaps...Thank you, Jeff, for describing up what is perhaps the most compelling reason for writing here. A huge problem with being a feminist man (and the same would apply to a member of any oppressing group who is into the rights movement of the group they oppress) is that it is so often inappropriate or even harmful to post about one's experience with feminism. Here we can talk about it without intruding on, belittling or appropriating female-centred feminist spaces.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492294499781518531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-18205616003949039392007-07-19T11:17:00.000-07:002007-07-19T11:17:00.000-07:00jeff, this is one of my favorite posts ever. and ...jeff, this is one of my favorite posts ever. and i think that it is a great example for men who want to be allies yet feel put-off by some um, more candid threads(not a great choice of words). <BR/><BR/>as a feminist, who does not subscribe to "men hate you", articles like that one make it seem so pathetically true. deep breaths. <BR/><BR/>again, great post.Sassywhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14604276739069071163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-16222966845764911012007-07-19T08:47:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:47:00.000-07:00hugo and roy--thanks for the kind words (and thank...hugo and roy--thanks for the kind words (and thanks for the linky-goodness, Hugo). It helps to know one is not alone in this stuff! It's one thing to know intellectually that others feel overwhelmed at times, but it's something more to hear it from individuals, so thanks again.Jeff Pollethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13789663140920958914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-34765806673991248282007-07-19T06:38:00.000-07:002007-07-19T06:38:00.000-07:00I agree with Hugo completely. I think that it's re...I agree with Hugo completely. I think that it's really important to be able to say "what was said there made me really uncomfortable and it hurt, and here's why" while still recognizing that the place where those words are coming from, and why the other person might have those feelings. <BR/><BR/>Over all, I just want to say what a fantastic read this was- I've definitely gone through these feelings before, too, and it <I>is</I> really hard to know how to react. There are times when I'll read things and all I can do is throw my hands up because it feels so overwhelming and impossible, and I recognize that there's no good response to what's being said.Rex Libris https://www.blogger.com/profile/13666188771524753584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28989955.post-63393626390390216502007-07-18T16:30:00.000-07:002007-07-18T16:30:00.000-07:00You did this perfectly, jeff. You acknowledged t...You did this perfectly, jeff. You acknowledged that the words used in a forum like Twistys do hurt badly, but you also aren't trying to silence the very legitimate pain those words express. Well done, my friend, I hear ya.Hugo Schwyzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06759950459313570493noreply@blogger.com