"The women of Bikini Kill let guitarist Billy Karren be in their feminist punk band, but only if he's willing to just "do some shit." Being a feminist dude is like that. We may ask you to "do some shit" for the band, but you don't get to be Kathleen Hannah."--@heatherurehere


Tuesday, July 18, 2006

"Modesty": the conservative clothing fetish (Lecture and open thread)

NOTE: In this post, as will most likely be my future habit, I sometimes use "girls" to refer to female persons in the abstract. This is not because I don't understand the distinction--I would never call a grown woman a "girl," but because, in fact, I am thinking about girls. specifically in the case of my own personal sexual experiences, the people in question are clearly girls, not. I fully expect, however, that many points I will make about girls now and in the future apply to women also. I rejected "females" simply because it sounds too impersonal.

In my last post (http://feministallies.blogspot.com/2006/07/these-creeps-think-about-sex-more-than.html), I was far less coherent than I could have been.

It was born originally out of my frustration with the tired old argument that men can't control the lust aroused in them by visual images (such as lightly clad or nude women.) This is obviously false, and not really worthy of much further argument.

However, the *reason* I don't buy into that claim seems potentially mroe interesting. I don't lust after girls because of their clothing. Now, I'm going to do my best not to be narcissistic. (I hope I spelled that right!) I'm certainly not going to say that everyone is or should be like me. Still, I cna only view the world through the lens of my own experience, and my personal perception take me in a rather different direction from the mainstream discourse.

I'll repeat again: I have never once been attracted ot a woman because of her clothes. For most of my life, I've barely been conscious of clothing--we aren't afraid of nudity in my household, I never had fashion sense growing up (I wore whatever was on top of the drawer) and I had a similar lack of interest in the clothing of others.

Now, I'm neither gay nor asexual--I'm not allergic to low necklines or visible bellies. Revealing clothing certainly can be hot. But my interest is not in the revelation itself but in *who* is being revealed. A good friend of mine, who I've long been attracted to, in a low-cut shirt or a fancy dress--that's hot. A random girl off the street, or a supermodel, in the same outfit--not hot.

Again, I could be exceptional. But it got me thinking: I find any kind of clothign attractive only when on attractive girls--often girls with average bodies and pretty minds. This seems to make sense: almost anything is sexy if it's associated with someone one personally finds hot.

Those calling for greater modesty seem to reach the opposite conclusion--that attractiveness is defined not by who you are, but by what you wear. implicit in the argument that men leer or harass because they fidn some type of clothing arousing is that they would NOT have been attracted if not for the clothing in question.

Now, what do we call it when one can't be aroused without a specific stimulus--that's right, a fetish.

I'll say it again--a demand for modesty only makes sense if made by men who fetishize women's clothing.

Now, I realize that not all men are alike. Generalizing about men's sexuality based only my own experience would be extraordinarily foolish. But it got my wodnering, are men as a whole really as clothing-focused as the conservatives claim? My suspicion is that the presumption that all men, by virtue of being men, must be aroused by certain types of clothing seems like one of those patriarchical gender-role things. So I'd love to hear from the men who read this blog, and my co-contributors: tell us about what clothing, if any, you find attractive, on whom, and why.

I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou. Finding clothing attractive or not isn't something we can help, a tleast not easily. And if many of us share this fetish in small part, that's hardly suprising. After all, fetishes are often shaped by society. If you *do* find revealing clothing universally lust-inducing, I mean you no disrespect.

But I believe that the feverish pundits writing polemics about the evils of short skirts may be a *bit* more sensitive to such thgins that the average man. And while I respect the existence of(almost) all sexual communities, it seems odd that a particular kink has so much sway over society. Odd, and dangerous. Because while the Homosexual Agenda has failed to destroy society--those right-wingers were right. There *is* a nationwide effort draw young people, even children in sexual fetishism--headed by people like our friend Bishop Yanta, who assume without evidence men are and should be aroused by "immodesty."

Opinions form the choir?

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

I know this is an old blog but I happened accross it and noticed no one commented on your remarks.

I value modesty. I think that when I meet a girl and she is wearing a shirt that shows half her cleavage or a skirt with half of her bum hanging out - I have a very hard time even paying attention to her mind or anything she has to say (which is horrible but it's the reality). I'm not attracted to women but I still find it distracting and I think this is true for men too. I don't think men get hard-ons when they see a girl dressed as such - I think it's more like the shock if anything (maybe I just know too many nice guys, hehe). Many women argue that wearing these types of clothes gives them sexual freedom but I differ in that opinion. I think that women feel pressured to always be expressing what society sees as a woman's sexuality (or people selling products) and I think women who find this necessary are also living through others people's eyes. Truely confident people don't need others checking them out constantly to feel any kind of worth. It doesn't reflect her individual sexuality at all. In fact - I'm not sure if anyone can accurately express their sexuality with any type of clothing what soever. I like the yin/yang way of looking at things - we all have a little of both in varying areas in our lives. The only way people can define their sexuality, truely, is to just be themselves - mind and spirit (which has nothing to do with appearence or clothing).
It's actually very frustrating to me - as a woman who has taken up on the belief that modesty is better from all genders - that it brings about harmony (and this includes people who boast of their accomplishments or bash others for not having any). I don't condemn people who disagree, I don't think they are sinners or bad people - I just have a hard time getting into their minds and seeing them for who they actually are because I'm so distracted by their clothes or make-up caked faces.
Here's where I take issue... When a woman walks into a room and she's wearing revealing clothes, with the push-up bra and the make-up, she appears to be very glamorous and all of that (on the surface) and automatically - all the attention is on her, whether it be women or men. The women who are more modest become jealous because even if they are saying something remarkable or insightful, no one will be listening... Even if it is coming from the unmodest woman herself.
And you know - I can only equate this kind of clothing with craving attention. I've been yelled at for this assumption before or had people tell me, "what's wrong with wanting attention?" but I can't (as a woman that is fairly secure and knows herself well) think of any other reason a person would keep wearing such things if they didn't want that kind of attention. It just doesn't make logical sense.
I also think those kinds of clothes set up a standard for women who don't wish to wear them or to present themselves as such (because of the attention thing I mentioned before - it turns very competitive I've noticed).
The other argument I've heard in favor of such clothing is that women want to express the things that make them female. I've argued that through clothing and other such things women do - are in fact, going against how women actually are. For example - even women with extremely large breasts don't have cleavage naturally (unless they are laying on their side - even small breasted women have cleavage in that case). Cleavage is not a fair representation of what women really look like. Women with larger breasts often dehumanize women who don't have them because they define themselves as female through their breasts - so the women who don't have them, feel as though they are less sexy or feminine. Women with small breasts can't even buy bras that aren't filled with like 3 inches of padding - it's like society is saying that women with small breasts shouldn't be able to express them as they are. I've had so many women make me feel horrible about having small breasts and no men have ever made me feel bad for it. It often seems like women are more obsessed with their breasts than men (the ones who are obsessed with boobs are usually pigs anyway - so who needs em?). It reminds me of how many men think big penis = better but very few women actually judge a man based on this (and if they do, ditch em, hehe).
It just seems to me that women are brainwashed into these things (via media/ads) and thinking that these things are feminine. In fact, sagging breasts and bare faces are truely feminine. Not skirts or highheels.
All of these things - push-up bras, highHELLS, clothing that does not keep one warm in the winter etc are things that are made to keep oppressing women. If women are constantly reminded of how ugly they are naturally - than companies can make more money selling them such things. If these things were harmless or advertised for men as well - I'm not sure they would bother me as much. The truth is - highheels lead to back problems, women wearing revealing clothes in 20 deg F weather could get pneumonia, and make-up has lots of carcinogens and toxins in it. These things are harmful and I honestly have a hard time trusting a persons word on this issue when they are willing to give up their health for vanity reasons.
I even date guys who are modest. I like modesty, I admire it. It has nothing to do with religion, I just like to know my man is secure with himself and isn't being sold all of these vanity items (men buy into a lot of crap too for vanity reasons). I don't like men who constantly feel the need to show off how masculine they are - I find it annoying and intruding on many levels.

Anonymous said...

i love outlandish fetish clothing, and although high heels can be quite normal they can be exotic too. celebrate the difference.

Anonymous said...

I am very much fond of fetish clothing.Its interesting one and i like it much...

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Anonymous said...

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