For some Robert Bly seemed an important voice. For others radical feminism became important. A few of the Het men bought into Male Anger and seemingly became anti-feminist. AIDS seemed to intervene as the 80’s moved ahead and the Het related energy seemed to leave almost entirely.
A few years ago I went back to a California Men’s Gathering and I was the only man there who identified as “hetish” – there was one bi man and the rest were all Gay men. The gathering was about community; Het men were “welcome”, but with no Het involvement in planning and community, it was a Gay Gathering.
Trying to envision an “ideal men’s gathering” today feels different and a little unclear. In a sense it feels like creating something that we generally Don’t Have anymore; a male community with Feminism as a key component. Clearly there would need to be an energy supportive of Het, Bi and Gay (and possibly Trans Gender) Men together. For this to be possible would require much more Het energy in such directions than seems common.
As a man in my mid-50’s, a variety of ages of men would also be important. I’d like to be around men from their 20’s to men at least in their 70’s. I would really like to experience men talking about “politics and life in general” – not meaning Bush Bashing – but rather Feminism influenced thought that might be all over the place in various ways. Our learning to learn from each other and to share both in our commonalities and our differences would be important to me. Part of this might reflect our spirituality and being playful and silly.
I think that as men we need to create a lot of “male things” in new ways, challenging much of our pasts as “real men” both in how we’ve grown and what recent generations of men have created. What I imagine isn’t a real movement. That would take a lot more work and effort.
I’m curious – what other men: 1.) Might imagine as time together – different visions than I hold and 2.) Any reactions to some of my images/ideas – above, 3.) Or - am I just "an old foggy" in what I speak of- not relevant to many of you younger men?
6 comments:
Here are a few things I'd want out of such an event:
* Some kind of affirmation that there are other men out there who can see the patriarchy and want to do something about it.
* Even just affirmation that not all men are assholes in the critical moments (like when another man is being an asshole and needs to be responded to, or when a woman is being repressed.)
* Opportunities to talk and get excited with other people about a variety of political issues (feminism, women's advocacy, men's advocacy, queer advocacy, sustainability, global political responsibility, etc, etc, etc...)
* Reminders about the "good" things traditionally associated with men. Entrepreneurship, creativity, humor, camraderie, loyalty, etc.)
* An opportunity to make friends in my region, hopefully in my neighborhood, who share my values and want to work on projects together after the event is long past. People who would be excited to go to feminist talks or queer book release parties or whatever.
I know some of these are vague, but they're thoughts. I'll post again if I think of more.
Erik
(for what it's worth, I'm 25 and identify as queer and leave it at that.)
Geo--
I like a lot of what you have to say, as well as what erik has added to the mix.
I am very interested in the notion of community, in the lack of a community of feminist men (which may mostly just be my perception, and not reality), and in what I would want in a community of feminist men.
First of all, I wonder about the necessity of such a community--I certainly feel some need for it, but that may be something that comes from my larger need for community in general at this point in my life. I know that one of the reasons that this groupblog was created was because a couple of people had emailed me and lamented at the lack of a community of feminist men.
But do we really lack a community, or am I just out of the loop? I'm not sure. I probably don't spend as much time with some other online communities that might facilitate an online feminist men's community--but that is sometimes because I have enough points of disagreements that I don't feel safe in those places.
Or maybe I just don't connect well with other men, feminist or otherwise?
Add to that the interesting difficulties that I've encountered in this very space with relating to the other men involved, and I'm sort of at a loss to understand both my need for community and my feeling of a lack of community.
Another piece of this puzzle is that I think in-person (i.e. not just online) communities can be important, and I certainly feel like I'm been lacking that. This becomes even more difficult--I feel like finding some room for other sorts of communities In Real Life may take precedence over finding/creating a community of feminist men where I live. That is, if I start going to various feminist functions, I will probably meet at least some feminist men.
Sometimes I feel like there just aren't that many of us, and sometimes I feel like I'm just an antisocial fucker, so that it's doomed regardless.
Erik and Jeff,
I appreciate what both of you have added to my initial thoughts!
Erik - I second virtually everything you said. Thanks!
Jeff - I think you touch upon a variety of important issues in what you've said.
It seems easist for us as men to cozy up to women, to identify narrowly in practice with others in our lives in various ways, and to not affirm our "being male" (for lack of a better term).
In practice this tends to put the responsibilities for many things upon individual women and women's movements around us.
Gay Men - may have community within the Gay or Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Trans communities with or without feminist consciousness.
For Gay Men, if they work in their community or communities towards feminist based change, they will no doubt do a lot of the important work for Het Men.
As the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950's and early 1960's turned into The Black Power Movement of the mid-1960's, White People were no longer able to "help those poor Negroes", but rather were challenged to work in the White Community to end Racism.
To this day - we - Whites - haven't done the work! Racism persists in more subtle, but still important ways.
As men it is important that we own our isolation from other men! Jeff you are not alone in your life situation. Many of us, no matter what our social eptness, lack community with other men. It's often far easier to have female friends!
We can not organize to help end Sexism unless we learn to work with other men in various ways. My initial thoughts were a small part of my puzzle in such areas.
Erik, you brought up a lot of good ideas talking of how our being male can be affirming and positive, without affirming Sexism and Oppression.
I don't think that there is strong Feminist Male Community. I recall in the Amherst-Northampton area of Western Massachusetts there being some wonderful male feminist community. I don't know how strong it is. The San Francisco Area has in the past had lots of Pro-Feminist Men, but varying levels of community among them. Efforts in places like Boston and St. Louis, often focussed around domestic violence issues, has helped build cohesiveness, but I'd be surprised if it lasted more than 5-10 years (and this was 20 years ago).
We're often good at having charismatic or effective speakers or writers, but not community.
Thanks again!
I just love that you said "hetish" and I'm sure to use that in the future. I'm 33 and have been dubbed by my dissertation adviser as an honorary woman - said after someone apologized in front of me for saying some sort of frustrated-with-men comment. I don't mind being an honorary woman, but I have more identity with being a feminist guy. Frankly, I'm uncomfortable around many what I might call essentialist men, het or not, and I thank you for this post.
please continue your work, there are more men than you know who identify with you... and need the space to do so.
i appreciate and respect men who see that and attempt to validate other men who do so.
i think there is possibly more of an importance in providing the space that you seek than even safe "woman spaces" if only for the fact that the more men who speak up and feel comfortable doing so free's other men up... therefore freeing themselves.
and that is what we need in an ally.
Thanks Marc and Sassy!
I think that "het" or "Het" - is important in that:
1.) We need to be able to poke humor at ourselves in an easy, comfortable way and perhaps more importantly,
2.) Het - White Men - are grossly under-represented in a variety of progessive areas far, far too often. Yes, we are screaming up front on stage in some causes, but behind the scenes very often the Women are doing the work or the People of Color or the Women of Color.
We, too often, want to be the "Stars" and have others kiss up to us. I don't think it a coincidence that so many of the older New Right writers/ philosophers are White, Jewish, Male former "radicals" of the 1950's and 1960's.
It takes much, much more than "intelligence" to build movements and to be caring, loving, empowering people.
Sassy - indirectly I think that you reference an importance divisive force amongst us men - often it's homophobia - or other fears of other men.
Thanks!
Post a Comment