"The women of Bikini Kill let guitarist Billy Karren be in their feminist punk band, but only if he's willing to just "do some shit." Being a feminist dude is like that. We may ask you to "do some shit" for the band, but you don't get to be Kathleen Hannah."--@heatherurehere


Thursday, May 24, 2007

Much to Think About: A Bit of a Rant

The last few days have brought some revelations for me, as a man who identifies as a feminist. Mostly, I'm recognizing how complex feminism really can be, and how intersectionality, while an easily thrown-around buzzword (with some great meaning) is really a conceptual puzzle all to itself. How do we talk about gender without talking about race, class, sexuality, able-bodied-ness, and the like? I mean, we do manage to talk about these things as sorta-separate, with a nod to the fact that (as I see it), they are all intertwined, but it remains true that we are always already leaving something out. How can we be inclusive, rather than just paying lip service to various people and viewpoints? Where do we start, and how do we go on, this way?

I know, I know, there is no other place to start but from where we are, but at the moment if feels overwhelming. I have a harder and harder time writing anything about gender because I don't want to leave out anything else. Maybe that's good. But it means I'm writing less and less.

I'm curious if anybody else feels this way, and what are some ways of going on to do good work regardless? My intuition is that perhaps I've been living within the words of it all for too long, and that maybe I need to get myself to some meetings and interact with other people in the world in other ways, that doing so would help me to bear the complexities. But that seems even more overwhelming, because it's sometimes hard to even have a conversation with people who haven't begun to grasp the ways in which all of these things are interrelated.

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

11 comments:

geo said...

Jeff,

I hope that you won't avoid talking about gender - related to the concerns you have raised! Where we can all run into problems, is when we make statements about Gender being dominant or "more important" than other areas such as you have mentioned (as well as when we totally ignore such issues as existing).

Speaking from our life experiences is helpful. Thinking of our "blindspots" also is helpful.

Listening to others who are People of Color, Women, Differently Abled etc. also is helpful!

Admitting our mistakes when we make them, rather than walking on eggshells seems best to me.

Thanks!

Unknown said...

Good points, Geo. I'm especially enamored of your suggestion to listen to others as much as possible, and that's something I'm going to focus on--and another reason why I don't write as often as I could, because I'm spending some time reading and listening to others. I think I tend to do a lot of that anyway, but now I'm doing it within the particular context of better recognizing connections.

Thanks again for your words.

Anonymous said...

It's hard, I definitely agree, to stay "on topic" when you're discussing gender (or anything, really), especially in the context of a blog, where you have total control to say whatever you like.

I say go for it. I mean, if you're a feminist who isn't against racism, what's the point?

But aside from that, I find myself doing the same thing - simply not posting rather than risking getting "off topic." Which is silly, I know, but I can't explain it any better.

Jeff Pollet said...

I say go for it. I mean, if you're a feminist who isn't against racism, what's the point?
Well put, Andrew.

I think I get myself too caught up in the differences between, say, non-racist and anti-racist...but that may just be my middle-class-white-man's-guilt talking.

I think fearing getting 'off topic' may at times seem silly--it certainly feels that way sometimes--but I also tend to think that it's really important, because it's tough to negotiate all of this stuff without doing harm. What's got me thinking about this is some of the criticism of Valenti's book, Full Frontal Feminism, in part; here is this person, this woman, this feminist, who (I would say) has all the best intentions in the world as regards inclusion of race in her ideas, and she still managed to alienate some people in an important way. Now, we could argue about the reasons why (and people are, of course), and when feeling alienated is more justified or less justified, and all that, but really, it still matters that people did, and that's the sort of reaction that I have when I feel fearful of leaving something--and somebody--out. Given that my intentions are to do some good and to not do harm, I think I sometimes get in the mindset that doing nothing at least doesn't do harm--which is of course not true either.

Blah, blah, blah. I could go on. Obviously. :)

Unknown said...

in the context of "bla bla bla" I'd like to hear your thoughts on this: http://dinahproject.com/articles_view_details.asp?id=117
do men have a place in every female struggle? Is it not just soft patriarchy?

AFM said...

GENERAL ADVICE FOR LIBERAL WHITE GUYS ANYWHERE:

All white people need to have a serious eye on the racism-o-meter. I think the main thing you have to do is start immersing yourself in another point of view to really get it, so you can write about it. You will always be a white male but if you have read every black author you can get your hands on, regardless of topic, and watch the shows you think of as black, just do the things you know scream AFRICANAMERICAN in your liberal brain :D

Then do that with Gender and every other culture that is DIFFERENT than how you think then you will know enough to be confident in the terrain. You will have a fundemental mind change as to how you think of the racial and sexual questions and you can join the conversation having, hopefully, identified with the opressed as though it is you and your family. Then you realized you are white and you can speak too, standing up when the others around you are racist and sexist.


And how do we STOP THE GOVERNMENT FROM DEPORTING PARENTS!!!!Re the roundup of illegal aliens. Can we now all scream about that? PLEASE!!!!

Yes I have to go write a blog about it, I've been avoiding.

I don't rant about it cause I don't know what to do. A little hopeless about things in the governement arena these days.

Jeff Pollet said...

Thanks, AFM. You're right, of course, that immersion is one good way to go about recognizing racism (and sexism, and ableism...and...). Probably something of a necessary way. Not to be too much of a middle-class-white-whiner, but it's freakin' tough to do. Not just in that reading and being part of various facets of pop culture (i.e. tv, movies, music and the like) doesn't get you far enough, but also because it's emotionally trying--same thing with feminism and being a man: there is a constant need to analyze one's own identity, and one is going to frequently fuck up, and that's hard for some of us to handle.

But again, working on it. It's a process (which is hard for me to keep in mind at times) and all that.

As far as so-called Immigration Reform goes, there's another subject that makes me feel overwhelmed. I live in California, and am amazed at the weird attitudes around citizenship here--lots of people act as if people who weren't born citizens don't contribute to the society, to the economy, etc...and that's...just...a bizarre opinion, to me. I don't even know where to start with people.

One silver lining: I live in Oakland, and the Oakland city council has refused to allow the city to partake in the roundups. Brownfemipower has a post about it here.

Jeff Pollet said...

AFM--oh, and thank you for your words.

geo said...

Mona,

In 1983 - we had growing energy amongst us within the Madison Men's Center to "do something" related to feminism.

Some of us went in the fall to the Upper Midwest Men's Conference in St. Paul and were inspired by Andrea Dworkins' first speech to a predominantly male audience.

We began meeting regularly - about eight men developing trust, figuring out what specific issue we wanted to focus on, educating ourselves more deeply, etc.

After a few months of being together (not having done any external work within our new group), we invited two women from the Madison Rape Crisis Center to meet with us.

They showed us a disturbing film on rape, left us alone to talk about the film until we were ready to talk with them and one of them asked something like: "What did you think of the film?"

Within several minutes our unity was totally gone and we were feeling animosity towards each other. The women's presence (understand that they were allies and we all identified as "Pro-Feminist Men") - threw us greatly.

We decided out of this experience that we needed to be a Male Only group with the hope of working with women when we could demonstrate to the Feminist Women's Community our follow-through - in coalition, but as separate groups.

Men Stopping Rape, Inc. became probably the most successful men's anti-rape group that had existed prior at least to the last 10-15 years.

As men we need to confront our homophobia. We also need to develop as allies and friends and close buddies of other men - confronting each others and ourselves.

I think that often it will be hard for women's groups to include men until many of us have bonded in good ways with other men and moved forward in our work and lives.

Thanks!

geo said...

AFM - I think that for most of us White Men - we need to immerse ourselves in new ways with gender related issues as well as racism.

I'd read a tremendous amount of Black authors and books about "being Black" in various contexts before I met my (Black) partner.

My intellect was developed with the reading. Being with A Black Woman and her bi-racial sons has and continues to change my perspectives on racism.

It's very, very, very easy for us White Men to Think we are learning a lot about Gender or Racism.

Often I think we need to explore lots of the places where we get scared, angry, lost or similar - particularly where we tend to get defensive - on such issues.

Even with all that we do and try to do, we still remain White Males with privilige. We have the opportunity to turn things on and off - which others can't do.

We do need to get off of our whatevers and try harder and not be scared of trying.

Thanks!

arvan said...

Jeff,

It is freakin' complex! I don't have any advice for anyone on technique or knowledge. I do have my experience to offer for consideration, though.

There are a lot of people out there, much smarter and better than me in almost every regard. I learned that a long time ago, and being married to a woman who is very smart and very feminist - I am aware of my limitations. However, I have found one stratagem that helps me greatly - I just do my best with what I have at the time. I pay attention to the results and accept responsibility for what I said/did, etc. Then, I do the best with what I have at the time.

The rest (upset, failure, criticism, success, progress...) I just deal with as it comes.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Arvan